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| | (Post a comment) » 3D Performance with Far Cry - Part 2 NVIDIASince publishing our last 3D Performance with Far Cry article we've discovered that Far Cry uses 2.0 shaders in considerably fewer instances than we thought. In fact, most of the game can be rendered without reduced image quality on a GeForce4! In our second article we've explored the differences between the various shaders in greater detail with screenshots, we've also combined GeForce cards ranging from the GeForce4 Ti 4200 all the way up to the GeForce 6800 Ultra, 12 cards total. Even if you read the first article this is one story you may want to check out! |  Previous news article | Back to main news | Next news article  |
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#30
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Author:
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Anonymous at 08:54pm 06/6/2004
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Response to #27:
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LOL
hey its a lot better than ATI cheating on the x800 benchmarks and
doing dodgy adaptive filtering and not telling anyone..
LOL
You can play down ps3 all you like, but mainly because ur a fanboy
of the worst kind.
Well ATi cheated on their benchmarks and the 6800 is 20% Faster
GET OVER IT...
DO a google search on ATI x800 cheats if you dont believe me
Nvidia got !@$! for using the very same " optimisations"
lol
Looks like ATI came out lookign bad this time around..
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#27
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Author:
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Anonymous at 10:04am 04/30/2004
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Well here are some thoughts:
-Far Cry run's on ALL ATI hardware at 1600x1200 and 4XAA NVIDIA
card's don't, frame rate is very low but at least work's, by the way
this means that ATI cards require less memory to render the same
that NVIDIA card’s does.
-Stop saying that NVIDIA card's do 32bit and ATI card's only 24,
when we all know that NVIDIA make's extensive use of lower (not to
say crap) 16 bit and 12 bit (cheating to me).
-I never see any proof of NVIDIA "32 bit mode" of being
superior to ATI's 24 bit one, any one have pics were this is shown,
I have see pics with 12bit and 16 bit one's from NVIDIA and they
show a lot of render … problems.
-NVIDIA AA is worst over ATI AA one, any one have played Call of
Duty with 6X AA on ATI and 16X AF with a ATI 1.2Ghz with 512MB
SDRAM, I have and it looked stunning, no doubt, why they don’t test
the NVIDIA 8X AA vs ATI 6X AA it would be funny seeing a 2 year old
card beat a not even released one.
-Stop talking about VS and PS 3.0 as being a big think (hoo Unreal
3.0 will not run on Ati no PS3.0 support), is the biggest lie I have
heard, SM3.0 is a extend instruction to achieve more performance and
create "bigger" programs, nothing more, SM2.0 will do it
all, well there is the FP32 ... but will NVIDIA parts deliver good
speed running FP32 ONLY (no cheat with 12 and 16) and improve then
the image quality? I have to see that, yet. Remember PS1.4 (DX8.1)
vs PS1.1 (DX8) it’s the “same” story here.
-if the 32bit is the future, better, ... why they still use the
lower 12bit and 16 bit ones on their newest part, lack of
confidence? How do they explain that 24 bit is not enough (or good)
Read the rest of this comment...
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#23
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Author:
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moonwalk at 02:47pm 04/29/2004
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Response to #22:
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Ah. I get what your saying now.
And I agree but if they dont want any effects that -require- PS2.0
or 3.0 they arent going to use PS1.1..
So I would agree that PS1.1 is much better than people are believing
due to all the hype that ATI laid down for 2.0 and NV for 3.0.. I
would have to defend FiringSquad because they are simply defending
what you posted about using the lowest possible shader version
possible (unless it boosts performance).
They are just letting people know that the game uses PS1.1 mostly..
because MOST of us are unaware and have believed (as I have) that it
uses many effects that REQUIRES PS2.0 and 3.0.
I wonder, and am theorizing that possibly, the effects made possible
with PS2.0 are too performance intensive in many uses at all..
without jumping to 3.0 where the performance loss is offset more.
What HASNT been talked about, and what I personally believe was left
out of this article is VS 2.0 and 3.0 uses by Far Cry.
THAT I would complain about, but not FS stating that PS1.1 is mostly
the version used in this game.
VS3.0 (which the Geforce 6 series will only have) DRASTICALLY
increases graphical quality, as it is the standard that requires
displacement mapping.
I will even go out on a limb and say that the PS3.0 screenshots
provided by Nvidia (ie. the buddha) have such huge IQ improvements
due to the VS3.. not PS3.
Remember, Crytek is updating this game for shader model 3.0, which
includes VS and PS 3.0.. not just PS3.0.
From what I've read, PS3 wont increase IQ much but will increase
performance quite a bit.
But increased performance always, in the end, equals better image
quality.
Due t
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#21
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Author:
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moonwalk at 11:48am 04/29/2004
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Response to #20:
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"There are enough articles that complain the image
quality of the G6800U in Farcry because it is
(currently) runnig in the "faulty" NV30
(partially PS 1.1) path. Has nobody seen those
screenhots?"
Aye. Lame indeed. I would agree with you.
But it if the game does use 1.1 shaders mostly, it will be funny if
Crytek/NV updates the game to use 3.0 shaders and leaves ATI cards
in the dust because they'll make sure that the implementation of 2.0
shaders that ATI uses is not supported (defaulting back to
1.1shaders on ATI hardware).. yet 3.0 is used for all 3.0 cards (how
convienent).
I dont really care what they do (who would?), but it'd be crafty and
smart to do it my way detailed above.
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#20
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Author:
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Anonymous at 10:35am 04/29/2004
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Well this article is quite interesting, but nevertheless some
statement are plain wrong IMHO. :-(
Can't understand why people that write such articles are'nt
investingating more carefully, or was there some intention behind
it? - Sorry for this strong words, but sometimes some
"meanings" spread very quickly on the Internet and become
"facts" and can do some harm.
"In fact, from what we can tell, Far Cry mainly uses 1.1
shaders to achieve the jaw-dropping visuals we discussed in the
intro.
...
Don’t believe us? Let’s take a look at one of Far Cry’s best
features, its water"
Well, the ocean-water around a isle (let's call it "external
water") really looks nice but why do you take it as the ONLY
effect for the comparation???. There are other effects in the game
btw...
Simple as that: Take the very beginning of the Game when you
"awake" in a cave with little water in it. Settings all on
very high (or ultra high for water etc.)
Now please look at this scene with a Geforce3 (like mine) or your
Geforce4.
What you will see is water that looks exactly like that on the PS
1.1 screen of the Nvidia PS 1.1 VS 3.0 (well also 2.0) comparation.
Looks like $@&@, like "external water" on low Setting,
like water in all old Games.
Now take a look with a PS 2.0 Card (like the R9500 Pro of a Friend)
and you see Water that looks exactly like the water on the PS 2.0
screen of the Nvidia PS 1.1 VS 3.0 thingy......
At least when it comes to the water, Nvidia did not fake the PS 1.1
VS 3.0 screens. (BUT the Texture-Detail seems to be somewhat very
low on the PS 1.1 screens IMHO)
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#19
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Author:
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moonwalk at 10:52pm 04/28/2004
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Response to #18:
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Wow, you've been in some deep meditation over NVs 6 series I can
tell!
"I highly doubt it will be that drastic, but I
would expect the 6800 XT/SE to probably be the
equivalent of the 5950 Ultra at best."
Not too shabby for $300. Considering the 5950 Ultra still retails at
this point in time for $380 itself.
But I would say it wont scale so perfectly as you reduce the
bandwidth, and certainly FS being the great site that it is could
emulate 12 pipes by underclocking it drastically. :)
It'd be hard to hit it on the money but we'd have an idea.
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#18
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Author:
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Trogdor at 08:32pm 04/28/2004
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Comment:
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You know, everyone is talking about how great the 6800 Ultra is
performing, and assuming that the 6800 non-ultra and 6800 XT will
also be great cards. It looks like the 6800 standard will ship with
700 MHz RAM, compared with the 1100 MHz RAM on the Ultra. That
basically makes it the same as the 5900 XT/SE in terms of memory
bandwidth!
Certainly, at lower resolutions the 12 pipelines (or 8 on the XT/SE)
will outperform the other GeForce FX, and it will be nice to have
proper PS2.0 support, but I'm betting that the memory bandwidth on
the other 6800 cards is going to be a very limiting factor at high
resolutions.
Look at the performance of the 6800 Ultra with 2XAA and 8XAF. At
1024x768, it gets 63.4 FPS. Now cut the pipeline performance to 75%
of the Ultra, since we're going from 16 to 12 pipelines. Most
likely, that would cut performance to 75% as well. That would put
you at 47.6 FPS. Then cut the RAM performance to 64% of the Ultra,
dropping from 1100 MHz to 700 MHz. If that decreased the
performance the same amount, you would actually be slower than a
5950 Ultra and end up with 30.4 FPS. I highly doubt it will be that
drastic, but I would expect the 6800 XT/SE to probably be the
equivalent of the 5950 Ultra at best.
In fact, look at how the 5900 XT compares to the 5700 Ultra. The
5700U has a faster core (475 MHz instead of 390 MHz) but much slower
memory bandwidth, since it's a 128-bit bus. Basically, the 5700U
has 121% of the GPU performance of the 5900XT, but only 64% of the
memory bandwidth. It ends up being about 79% of the speed of the
5900XT. If you take the computations for 8XAF out of the picture,
along with 2XAA,
Read the rest of this comment...
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#17
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Author:
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moonwalk at 03:34pm 04/28/2004
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Response to #16:
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I figured you guys were stacked with parts. Oh well, even on a
mediocre 350watt if it did work.. that'd really be something.
But I'm afraid it might take a quality 350watter, and if not that,
400.. but I just cant imagine a good fortron source or enermax
400watt not working with one.
Be interesting to see if Jen-Hsuns claims of one molex being enough.
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#16
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Author:
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GX-Brandon at 11:13am 04/28/2004
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Comment:
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On the PSU issue, we don't have a large variety of PSUs to test
with. When I upgraded the testbeds PSUs a few years ago I just
bought multiple Sparkles so they'd all be the same. The same applies
to our CD-ROM and HDDs. I can see if it will work with the 6800U,
but I believe I've only got 14A on the 12V rail to work with so it
may not be as high as some of the better 350W units out there.
For those who just want to compare the ATI to the NVIDIA cards, open
two browser windows. The testbed specs are the same in both articles
and the same demo was used for benchmarking.
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#15
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Author:
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Anonymous at 05:41am 04/28/2004
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Comment:
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has anyone seen the screen shots of far cry taken from the 6800u
come on the image quality is as bad as the FX cards seems nvidia is
still using there mix mode in regards to pixel shaders thats why any
nvidia card outputs the same image, they are all using pixel shader
1.1 not like ati's cards using ps 2.0 when settings in game are set
to very high, what good does fps do if the image quality sucks,
don't get me wrong i am not a fan boy, i just don't think that a
card with 16 pipelines needs to be using a mix mode instead of pure
ps 2.0, specialy a card that cost so much
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